Glad you're here,
Blendo
.
Today at 9:24 AM
drearn roadToday at 9:24 AM
hi
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:24 AM
@Blendo welcome to the server!
BlendoToday at 9:35 AM
Can I say I am amazed at all this.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:35 AM
the discord, the digging, etc?
BlendoToday at 9:36 AM
Um yes, but can I ask, are most people here old users of Community Place and VAIO, or are they mostly new users like myself?
Forgive my SAPARi Official name, which seems unfitting.
For I am far from official in any sense.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:37 AM
all of us are new users - i have considered if we should give out the discord invite to the older player as well, out of respect.
hey, dw about it~
where did you hear about this place/sapari?
BlendoToday at 9:39 AM
Well, I never used it because when I did (on an old PCG-505V from 2004-2008) the servers had long been turned off.
I just browsed the old wrl files and thought it was cool, like any Win 98 SE PC with VAIO software was
ScottieToday at 9:39 AM
oooh
BlendoToday at 9:40 AM
Meanwhile, https://sapariofficial-jp.blogspot.com/
さぱり公式サイト
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:40 AM
wait.....by that implication....are you one of the old users?? or from back then?
BlendoToday at 9:40 AM
An old user I think, means a user who actually chatted with others pre-2003 Jan
I was merely a VAIO user.
https://vscommunityplace.blogspot.com/
Virtual Society on the Web
New 3D Development Foundation Project for VRML and X3D entitled 'Blendo'
https://hubs.mozilla.com/CTVKNWV/%E6%9C%AC%E6%89%80%E6%99%82%E4%BB%A3%E6%9D%91
本所時代村 | Hubs by Mozilla
Join others in VR at 本所時代村, right in your browser.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:42 AM
holy shit, a VAIO user?? when did you use it? what timeperiod?
BlendoToday at 9:42 AM
I personally know Mr Noma (wonder2/VAIO software) and Mr Sawai (GCO) who were involved in creating sapari as explained here https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%81%95%E3%81%B1%E3%82%8A
%E3%81%95%E3%81%B1%E3%82%8A
VAIO user? I am a fan of Sony VAIOs, and I dislike current VAIO PCs with their business appeal and toughness but none of the fun...
I used 505, C1, FE4, TX, TZ, TT, VPCL21
TortusToday at 9:44 AM
wait what's happening Hi Sapari official who's
did you make this?
BlendoToday at 9:44 AM
And E series, Z12, and so on.
Personally I credit VAIO for having software including Community Place from Sony CSL, XGStudio (from Yamaha), and Sonicstage Mastering Studio (groundbreaking mastering VST plugins and DSD recording/SBM Direct downconversion taken straight from Sonoma software)
I can share all this for interested parties.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:46 AM
please do! id love to hear more of what you have to say - there is a lot i would like to ask you, although ill let you speak your thoughts first
BlendoToday at 9:47 AM
I have stored an archive of nearly every version of Community Place and Sonicstage Mastering Studio, though it's not much use to anyone these days.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:47 AM
wait......nearly every version??
BlendoToday at 9:48 AM
I'll say finally that I saw PachiiMochii's tweets on https://twitter.com/hashtag/%E3%81%95%E3%81%B1%E3%82%8A
#さぱり hashtag on Twitter
See Tweets about #さぱり on Twitter. See what people are saying and join the conversation.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:48 AM
could you be super specific? which versions do you have? im really interested!
awww ^_^
and that lead you to here, right?
BlendoToday at 9:48 AM
I was surprised because they were dated from just days ago.
Versions off the top of my head, they include CyberPassage (1996) betas (from CD-ROMs of VRML books), CP 1.1, 2.0 alpha, 2.0, 2.2 but I think they're trial versions...
I got most from webarchive of course.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:50 AM
This seems imteresting
What if there's server versions too?
I could need some
BlendoToday at 9:51 AM
servers are limited to 12 people (betas 1 and 2 1997) or 3 people (2.1) 1998/
And they don't work with win 10
Only on xp or 2000
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:51 AM
I have an open server publicly
BlendoToday at 9:51 AM
I tried virtualbox
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:51 AM
Don't worry about this
BlendoToday at 9:51 AM
WHAT?!!
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:51 AM
Hehe you heard right
BlendoToday at 9:51 AM
Amazing.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:51 AM
I do not use windows though
BlendoToday at 9:52 AM
SOLARIS?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:52 AM
Ubuntu
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:52 AM
SAPARi official - could i ask you something?
BlendoToday at 9:52 AM
yes
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:52 AM
would you be willing to share the versions of sapari you have?
BlendoToday at 9:52 AM
I have CP Conductor from Mr Masayuki Ishikawa.
Links are here.
https://vscommunityplace.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html
Official download files for Community Place
New 3D Development Foundation Project for VRML and X3D entitled 'Blendo'
CP Conductor I haven't uploaded to cloud though.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:54 AM
@Blendo about my servers
It's a Linux powered server publicly available to join
We are on the search for the non commercial usable program that needs a license though
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:54 AM
We have the conductor at another source too
BlendoToday at 9:54 AM
Actually I probably can't help anyway since you're all so incredible.
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:55 AM
SAPARi official, you have just done something amazing
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 9:55 AM
I don't do much here nor have I Co tribute to much of the search
Only a little of the history:yum:
BlendoToday at 9:55 AM
This is like Postpet, that email client has a legion of fans
I didn't think SAPARi would...
catfaceToday at 9:55 AM
Someone else knows about PostPet?!!
drearn roadToday at 9:56 AM
yes
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:56 AM
there is someone to thank for that - one year ago, one person caused folks outside of japan to finally know what sapari is
@catface
it it wasnt for catface, none of this would have occured, at all
BlendoToday at 9:56 AM
hmm
catfaceToday at 9:56 AM
Pachii! You’re too kind~...
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:57 AM
im honest~
can someone get into the closed beta to get those links btw?
@Blendo do you know anything about SAPARi development, or Tsunetake Noma?
BlendoToday at 9:58 AM
oh right,.
just delete the beta bit and it'll load
Dunno why I used beta back in 2017 when I did the trawling.
Easier to use then I guess, but not now!
PachiiMochiiToday at 9:59 AM
thanks SAPARi! ^_^
BlendoToday at 10:01 AM
Mr Noma knows it all, so I have nothing to add apart from what's on the wikipedia page (George Sawai created DXF files for Sony)
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:01 AM
DXF.....interesting!
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 10:01 AM
Guys what if we manage to get vaio laptops from ebay
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:02 AM
its possible, for certain
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:02 AM
A question: do you know who is behind the wikipedia page, or Sapacafe?
SolarstrikeToday at 10:04 AM
Holy smokes!
I did not expect you to appear!
BlendoToday at 10:05 AM
Sapacafe is probably an old user, and I'd written an email once which got a reply (sth about the wallpapers being official or fan-created), but the reply wasn't enthusiastic about reviving sapari.
the wikipedia page is also by old users but I edited it in 2017
to add the DXF Lightwave 3D part
I asked Mr Sawai for the original DXFs, but no reply.
To get them I'll have to visit him.
orangToday at 10:06 AM
whoawhoahwohao whats happening
hi sapari official?
marsroadToday at 10:06 AM
this calls for th
the pogfish
SolarstrikeToday at 10:06 AM
He’s an OG Sapari player iirc
marsroadToday at 10:06 AM
:fish~1:
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:06 AM
nope, but a VAIO user
SolarstrikeToday at 10:06 AM
:pogpants:
Oh
What’s that?
drearn roadToday at 10:07 AM
sony computer
orangToday at 10:07 AM
the computers that had sapari pre installed right?
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:07 AM
very interesting!
Do you know anyone who originally played Sapari?
SolarstrikeToday at 10:07 AM
Like he just uses VAIO?
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:07 AM
used VAIO. His/Her/Their reasoning is listed above ^^
SolarstrikeToday at 10:07 AM
Ah
BlendoToday at 10:09 AM
I know no actual Sapari users in real life.
orangToday at 10:09 AM
whats this?
the tecfa ftp server is there huh
BlendoToday at 10:10 AM
I know Dr Kouichi Matsuda who was behind PAW and got his doctorate for it.
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:10 AM
(OHHHH the paw news is going to make a certain someone happy haha)
drearn roadToday at 10:10 AM
heheh..
marsroadToday at 10:10 AM
second pogfish of the day :fish~1:
TortusToday at 10:10 AM
wait who was sapari official
BlendoToday at 10:10 AM
Basically I know all those doing CP at Sony CSL which was finished by 1997
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:11 AM
ex-VAIO user who dug into sapari long ago. Not a sapari player, but the closest person to it we know
BlendoToday at 10:11 AM
sapari official doesn't sound right.
TortusToday at 10:11 AM
hmmm
SolarstrikeToday at 10:11 AM
btw what pronouns do you use?
TortusToday at 10:11 AM
I like blendo
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:11 AM
lets not overload blendo with questions btw - dont wanna overwhelm em haha
SolarstrikeToday at 10:12 AM
Ah
Very well
BlendoToday at 10:12 AM
Some guys from Sony (non-jp) posited blendo as another upgrade dubbed VRML 3.0, which never happened!
So i stole the name for my company.
marsroadToday at 10:12 AM
nice
BlendoToday at 10:13 AM
SpaceStream was also by Sony and would have enabled CP to be used in internet browsers, as Sapari alpha but nobody used sapari anymore so...
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:13 AM
btw, the alpha you mentioned in those versions you have - is that Sapari Millenium Alpha?
BlendoToday at 10:13 AM
PAW is encoded as .scp files not wrl files, and I don't know how to view them
CP 2.0 alpha had voice chat capability in 1997 or 98, that's why I mention it.
SAPARi alpha is by So-net and is unrelated.
it required users to sign up for it.
So webarchive has no file records
2.2 took away voice chat!
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:15 AM
someone made a patch to bypass it, back in those days, if i remember correctly
BlendoToday at 10:15 AM
Ooh, sth called fake-sapari using MSN Messenger and a Java 3D sapari exists even today!
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:15 AM
that explains a lot actually - we tried digging into the code, the game, to try and find that functionality but.....no luck
BlendoToday at 10:15 AM
but not popular
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:15 AM
wait, what??
it still exists?? Hohtoh's work still exists?
BlendoToday at 10:16 AM
even 2.0 probably had no voice chat
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:16 AM
do you have a link? (sorry for all the questions)
BlendoToday at 10:16 AM
only that alpha
let me see.
can't be bothered uploading to GDrive so maybe MEGA nz
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:17 AM
mega can work ^^
it goes without saying but thank you so much for all of this Blendo!
it means so much to us
BlendoToday at 10:21 AM
And to me
SolarstrikeToday at 10:21 AM
Thank you very much!
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:23 AM
would you be able to link that Alpha in a MEGA, Blendo?
BlendoToday at 10:24 AM
https://mega.nz/folder/ghdXGabA#OJDAVKIacT2TRBiex0pIBw
https://mega.nz/folder/M4Ml3bSI#RGaUnE6qT8d_FSXPiniMPA
I must reupload/
these are from 2017, and overlaps with the webarchive stuff I already linked to
gwynnToday at 10:25 AM
OH shit hi !!!!!! i saw a paw mention. this is all very incredible
SolarstrikeToday at 10:25 AM
We all thank you for your stuff!
drearn roadToday at 10:25 AM
hello gwynn .
BlendoToday at 10:26 AM
of course, most of these exes are 16 bit and need a 32 bit OS
gwynnToday at 10:27 AM
hi dream =]
BlendoToday at 10:27 AM
perhaps I will upload a portable folder - of what has already been installed, but they display pink on win 10.
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:28 AM
thank you so much for all of this! :cat_head1:
:_dance_cat~1:
marsroadToday at 10:30 AM
yeah ! thank you very much blendo :cat_head:
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PachiiMochiiToday at 10:31 AM
@Blendo Do you know anything about Hohtoh and their modification work?
orangToday at 10:31 AM
woah waoh whats this?
???
oh there's a manual
BlendoToday at 10:33 AM
re Hohtoh - sorry, nothing
msn is cool
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:34 AM
no worries ^_^
What do you think of the fan-pieces of Sapari, lately? Same with the video I created on its history.
@Sapari Technician you guys should take a look at these files here, its INTERESTING as all hell
HxdceToday at 10:35 AM
:eye:
disheToday at 10:35 AM
aaaaaaa
HxdceToday at 10:35 AM
some rather surprising and cool developments, great to have you here Blendo
ScottieToday at 10:36 AM
w
whats goin on
drearn roadToday at 10:36 AM
sapari things
duh
disheToday at 10:36 AM
downloaded the bureau
which seems to be the real deal
but has a 3 users limit?
:((
BlendoToday at 10:37 AM
sapari, paw/pawpaw/paw2, postpet, aibo...
drearn roadToday at 10:37 AM
aibo?
BlendoToday at 10:37 AM
no not the real deal
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:37 AM
a rundown for folks to recent events: a user known as Blendo joined the discord here - they are an ex-VAIO user who knew of sapari but never played it, and have revealed a ton of documents and history on sapari and VAIO. A lot of gwynn's research adds up.
BlendoToday at 10:37 AM
Sort of like peer review, I have done nothing new
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:37 AM
Blendo is the closest link we have to the past, and we welcome them with open arms here~ :cat_head1:
disheToday at 10:38 AM
i mean it says "evaluation"
but its the first one i've seen that was "MaxUserCount" on the config file
which is huge
BlendoToday at 10:38 AM
that must be a remnant of my tweaking in 2017
orangToday at 10:38 AM
i still dont get what the AOS is
BlendoToday at 10:39 AM
AOs are programmed objects widely used in PAW?
disheToday at 10:39 AM
also first one that has the actual cp bureau logo :thinking:
orangToday at 10:39 AM
ooh
BlendoToday at 10:39 AM
How could VR be fun just for being VR?
Too often people give it up because it's purposeless
gwynnToday at 10:40 AM
aw glad to know my research n stuff has been validated by an inside source KFHDKDJDKHD
BlendoToday at 10:40 AM
I am not an inside source
gwynnToday at 10:40 AM
OH
orangToday at 10:40 AM
oh wow this WLS thingy seems useful
gwynnToday at 10:40 AM
i must have misread smth hold on
BlendoToday at 10:40 AM
I wanted WLS!
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:41 AM
they are an ex-VAIO computer user - never got to playing sapari but they have a lot of notable and interesting info ^_^
gwynnToday at 10:41 AM
i was under the assumption you knew the developers of sapari and paw ..?
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:41 AM
see the previous messages
BlendoToday at 10:41 AM
inside sources are not fans of sapari and were not of major help
yes I know them, called some of them, and went to Sony CSL's open house once but I myself cannot do much.
lots of emailing and begging...
terrible ordeal really.
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:43 AM
it was good that you tried though
very respectable!
BlendoToday at 10:44 AM
main aim: to get Sony a hardware company to open source their old CP suite, but Honda Yasuaki made it clear, unlike google, sony has no repository of code
developers can't just give it to you either
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:44 AM
no repository of code.....
so no source code. Oh my
BlendoToday at 10:44 AM
too much trouble for little gains
I tried reversing CP but I'm no programmer
HxdceToday at 10:45 AM
it's not unheard of for development teams from that era to just delete defunct projects altogether sadly
BlendoToday at 10:45 AM
tried ghidra and associated stuff
HxdceToday at 10:45 AM
I am interested in creating a successor to CP some day, using the Godot game engine, though I'm already preoccupied with another game I'm making
nonetheless, I have a repo for my work so far
BlendoToday at 10:46 AM
Nobody is interested in mozilla hubs?
HxdceToday at 10:46 AM
I like Mozilla hubs :slight_smile:
BlendoToday at 10:46 AM
too many platforms
HxdceToday at 10:46 AM
my intent was to create a standalone desktop application
BlendoToday at 10:46 AM
perhaps a shift is finally here
HxdceToday at 10:47 AM
I don't think I'll have the time to touch it for at least a year or more though, unfortunately
BlendoToday at 10:47 AM
though I can't understand how CP is so light on win 95 and hubs is laggy on win 10
20 years of backsteps
desktop apps? who will download?
Sony preinstalled, and they are a trusted brand
I wouldn't ever touch second life again
HxdceToday at 10:49 AM
it would probably mostly be fans of the original game
BlendoToday at 10:50 AM
of course! But new fans must be created as well, perhaps
I tried opencobalt-1.0alpha22 in 2017, but it was abandoned in 2013
It is similar to hubs
but is P2P and needs that browser
disheToday at 10:54 AM
btw did you manage to get the "maxUserNum" working?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 10:55 AM
MaxUserNum?
Why does this sound like a user number restriction
Is this from sapari?
disheToday at 10:56 AM
yeah
blendo's version had that parameter on the config file
but i can't get it to work
it's stuck at 3
PachiiMochiiToday at 10:56 AM
wait, have you got it working? the 3 player version?
disheToday at 10:56 AM
and when i modified that while reverse engineering it got unstable
yeah
but it is stuck at 3 aaaaa
BlendoToday at 11:10 AM
alpha 2.0 CP Browser + others https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18Rz4B_V1OTu7hByKxwO-FXfGO7XrrmLe?usp=sharing
if you want the exe installer you'll have to find it from the 7z called 'other exe'
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Today at 11:12 AM
BlendoToday at 11:12 AM
CPB20A2.EXE I think it is.
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:13 AM
is this the version of the game known as SAPARi Millenium Alpha?
disheToday at 11:15 AM
AAAA
BlendoToday at 11:17 AM
SAPARi Millenium Alpha as I said before is not in my possession as I was not a player at the time.
Nor would I have paid so-net to access it
by making it paid they lost virtually all users
this is never a profit making endeavour...
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:18 AM
ahhhh, noted! Do you think someone might have it out there though?
indeed, the paywall screwed things up really bad
BlendoToday at 11:19 AM
why are all you guys so devoted?
I never dreamed that such things could happen
in 2017 only I was determined
I thought I was the last man standing
SolarstrikeToday at 11:19 AM
The Butterfly Effect (2004)
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:20 AM
the pink cat looked cute and interesting, and where it came from was also interesting. This is a cute little game that deserves to be remembered, to be loved
orangToday at 11:20 AM
huh, isnt this the version that's hosted on that french ftp?
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:20 AM
BlendoToday at 11:20 AM
'that french ftp' or swiss?
yes it is. all that fuss for nothing right?
voice chat
here's my link list so you can re-trawl the web archive
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L-_16sa0-PmU_EUC7RNvvQqrUL1Mh7In/view?usp=sharing
Google Docs
sony community place links.docx
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:23 AM
thanks for this! ill keep this close
BlendoToday at 11:23 AM
it's only partial
HxdceToday at 11:23 AM
I think a lot of people in here have an interest and backgrounds in old media archival, restoration, retro gaming, etc
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:23 AM
to be honest Blendo, a lot of us love Sapari for differing reasons - some of us are historians, others want to know more about how it works, others love the animals! it varies
HxdceToday at 11:24 AM
Plus there's an appeal to a cute social/virtual world game lost to time I suppose
orangToday at 11:24 AM
yeah im mainly into this just for that cheesy 90's aesthetic
them 256 color bitmapss
HxdceToday at 11:25 AM
this server originally started as an off-shoot of a discord server for the multimedia artist and game developer Osamu Sato, whose work has a similar appeal in some ways
BlendoToday at 11:25 AM
For me I guess the impetus is primarily the sapacafe BBS with records of so many people wanting revival. I decided I would do it
Osamu Sato ah!
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:26 AM
16bit.bmp intensifies
I should start adding a sapari category to my emtpy forum
HxdceToday at 11:26 AM
I think the concept of VRML and Community Place sort of being the grandfather of things like Mozilla Hubs, Second Life, Garry's Mod, VRChat, etc is cool too
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:27 AM
But on the ooooother hand
Noone is using it
So we might bring life to it if we use it as a lost media forum
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:28 AM
@Blendo
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/792790677195980820
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/783812399458811925
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/782063029524627456
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/778209401260867606
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/778095858126290965
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/698271335046053989/755239625815097375
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:28 AM
good idea!
BlendoToday at 11:29 AM
very few people know and love VRML, and I really like it.
Unlike X3D with no interaction, or WebGL, A-Frame, and whatever glb/gltf files
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:31 AM
@Blendo fun fact one of the creators of vrml is as a creator of webgl
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:34 AM
@Blendo what do you think of this community?
BlendoToday at 11:36 AM
I think there are sufficient numbers to enable sapari to flourish and become famous, and that there are extremely able and talented people here who will be able to get servers running etc.
So is there a server?
Only a few days ago I created some hubs rooms for personal use.
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:37 AM
yep! two fan-servers!
and hey, we have a great historian here, aka you ^_^
hub rooms?
BlendoToday at 11:37 AM
But CP would deliver the full VSCP/java experience and the retro feel
fan-servers=discord
or ubuntu?
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:38 AM
@MAGNUS BETHSON
ah, are you asking about how the fan servers work, blendo?
BlendoToday at 11:38 AM
Later I will view the youtube video and previous links
no I don't really need to know how they work, just whether they do.
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:40 AM
they both work - you need a program by one of two people here to set the IP address and stuff though, for it to work.
BlendoToday at 11:40 AM
soon my link will be finished https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18Rz4B_V1OTu7hByKxwO-FXfGO7XrrmLe?usp=sharing
HxdceToday at 11:40 AM
in this case, "fan servers" refers to servers for playing Sapari
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BlendoToday at 11:41 AM
that is amazing because I in my code inexperience, could not get them to work 3 years ago.
HxdceToday at 11:43 AM
we mainly have @barra and I think @31kitune.wrl to thank, they discovered (independently from one another) how to make it work
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:43 AM
kog too, he learned how it worked to make his server too
and you also have gato and nosamu for the early server experiments and zerotier
HxdceToday at 11:44 AM
true that! Barra and I have wrote some software for making the process of joining a server easier
BlendoToday at 11:44 AM
I am just wowed.
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:44 AM
so....barra, gato and nosamu, kog, kitune
thats the timeline of it
BlendoToday at 11:44 AM
This must be a dream. I better go and come back.
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:44 AM
you are completely awake~
and we hope to dig more into sapari's history
quick question: what language do you speak natively? its relevant for what i want to ask you
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:46 AM
The current server for sapari runs on ubuntu if you were curious
BlendoToday at 11:47 AM
English, Japanese, and some others
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:47 AM
are you aware of the SAPARi NHK interview?
BlendoToday at 11:47 AM
No
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:47 AM
It's 2.20am
I am getting server setup flashbacks at this time
BlendoToday at 11:47 AM
I'm in Australia
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:48 AM
i see! its another thing we are trying to find too. SAPARi had a slot on the NHK's broadcasting back in november 1997
we havent been able to find it, not even in their archives
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:48 AM
Nhk
What does this stand for fully
Ima tune in too
Nhk world. Japan?
PachiiMochiiToday at 11:49 AM
Nippon Hōsō Kyōkai
日本放送協会
sometimes referred to as Japan Broadcasting Corporation
BlendoToday at 11:50 AM
surely beyond my abilities. keep searching youtube and some good samaritan will upload their vhs tapes
HxdceToday at 11:50 AM
yeah NHK is basically like the BBC of Japan
@ magnus
BlendoToday at 11:50 AM
I wonder why they upload vhs tapes of long-forgotten interesting things.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 11:52 AM
I think the best and most impossible
Would be to go there as they store most stuff on Audio or video tapes
@PachiiMochii
Imteresting
Nhk has stuff about vrml
https://www.nhk.or.jp/toppage/history/1995.html
NHKオンライン｜NHKオンライン「ヒストリー」
NHKオンライン｜NHKオンライン「ヒストリー」 - 1995年
「nhk.or.jp」ドメインの取得から現在までを、世相、オンラインの歴史と共に振り返ります。
A lot of Internet history is listed at 1995
BlendoToday at 11:58 AM
internet history research and preservation
not-for-profit
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:03 PM
I have skimmed through a translated version and I did message the nhk archive email service about the interview were searching
SolarstrikeToday at 12:07 PM
Birthday stream!
https://twitch.tv/solarstrike__
Twitch
solarstrike__ - Twitch
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:11 PM
thanks for these!
SolarstrikeToday at 12:12 PM
Streaming Eastern Mind!
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:12 PM
@Solarstrike if you are on the satocord, i recommend posting there too!
SolarstrikeToday at 12:13 PM
Already have!
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:13 PM
Alright im in the waiting list at least
I don't care if you see my name lmao
@PachiiMochii I emailed nhk about that interview
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:14 PM
nice!
budget music botToday at 12:14 PM
is the case number supposed to be private or not
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:14 PM
https://www.nhk.or.jp/toppage/history/1997.html i looked into this page
NHKオンライン｜NHKオンライン「ヒストリー」
NHKオンライン｜NHKオンライン「ヒストリー」 - 1997年
「nhk.or.jp」ドメインの取得から現在までを、世相、オンラインの歴史と共に振り返ります。
budget music botToday at 12:14 PM
still, I'll have no idea what to do with it
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:14 PM
there IS an interesting section about a "digital experiment"
im not sure sdoww
how would i be able to view old broadcasts, you think?
BlendoToday at 12:17 PM
161.97.138.179 is still working?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:18 PM
It shouls
Lemme check
Yup
Server is up
You can currently get into it by bruhspace.tk too and in browser to get to my forum too
I'm waiting for a certain domain
BlendoToday at 12:19 PM
So is there a need to loosen firewall?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:20 PM
For what
Hosting server or entering
BlendoToday at 12:20 PM
entering
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:20 PM
Nope
BlendoToday at 12:20 PM
I fail to connect
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:20 PM
You need to add the port too
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:20 PM
do you have the sapari server setter?
BlendoToday at 12:20 PM
bruhspace.tk:5126?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:20 PM
Try it
If not with the ip
@PachiiMochii
Sapari.jp or wait for sapari.com
Sapari.jp is listed at 70 dollars a year
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:21 PM
sapari.jp is less costly right?
BlendoToday at 12:21 PM
perhaps win 10 is not supported
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:22 PM
win10 is supported.
do you have the sapari server setter?
https://discord.com/channels/694394891584667678/694394891584667683/781267758444707851
BlendoToday at 12:22 PM
yes
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:22 PM
ah
nice!
are you able to screenshot what its showing? we might be able to help more
might be a simple error like a thing missing or something
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:23 PM
If we wait - sapari.com will drop from 12000 dollars to 13 dollars in February if noone buys it
@Blendo wait no
Try the ip
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:23 PM
maybe we should have a poll, see what people think
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:23 PM
Aybe you got the wrong one
@PachiiMochii you may wanna change what is said in the bulletin board about my server
It's back at the old ip
45.93.250.138:5126
@Blendo
That's the right one
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:25 PM
doing it now
BlendoToday at 12:25 PM
yes it works!
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:25 PM
I got confused as I have two servers and I lost track of the right ip
Excuse me for that
@PachiiMochii it's 3am
I am getting server setup flashbacks :cat_head2:
Only thing missing is my tablet with sapari and ssh open
@Blendo when I set up the server I was awake until like 4am trying to get it working and almost being available 24/7 to keep it running because I didn't know how to keep It alive
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:26 PM
MOOD
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:27 PM
At least I don't need to be awake anymore
For the server
It was really needed for me to switch back to the old server
The new one is under constant attack for some reason and turns off itself
BlendoToday at 12:29 PM
attack?
and is it max 12 people?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:30 PM
Yeah Chinese ips try to log into my server constantly
Not sapari but the server I host it on
BTW @Blendo I see you :cat_head2:
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:30 PM
max 12 people it seems
also, Kog, did Blendo manage to meet another player in sapari?
BlendoToday at 12:34 PM
what matters is that there is a server. And it works. Perhaps what I will work on is getting WLS and non-trial servers. they better give it to us.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:37 PM
@PachiiMochii according to my list noone was online
@Blendo if we get a software person to remove the user limit
We don't need the non commercial version
But having it would be neat
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:38 PM
maybe we can track down old players
see if they have anything still
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:38 PM
They won't have that one
I'm talking about the version you had to pay license money for
Only a hand full will. Have that
PachiiMochiiToday at 12:40 PM
who do you think might have it?
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:42 PM
It must be club saparer in my opinion
BlendoToday at 12:42 PM
no one I emailed had.
MAGNUS BETHSONToday at 12:42 PM
Club saparer was widely known and they had more than 12 members
They must know at least someone who has it
BlendoToday at 12:43 PM
doubtful, for it has not been revived via CP for over a decade.
BlendoYesterday at 11:20 PM
Could sbd else upload to Archive.org? I never used it. Besides it's a lot of junk and copyright infringement there.
BlendoToday at 12:19 AM
Sapari was kept quiet by its fans possibly to distance Sony from it. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to freely use Sapari as a fan-creation thing. Luckily the VRML itself is open source.
I finally propose a separate method of sapari, one that is not strictly for fans but is an evolving, flexible attempt to find new users, and I will use Mozilla hubs no matter how crudely. VRML is notoriously difficult to transcode to Hubs, even though sketchfab accepts most wrls easily. There seems to be a bug but maybe not. I tried sketchfab but decided to use blender and other converters together. Records will be kept on https://vscommunityplace.blogspot.com/
New 3D Development Foundation Project for VRML and X3D entitled 'Blendo'
I believe the old style of CP is unsurpassable in its excellence. CSL's and Sony Architecture Lab's work has stood the test of time.
I hope the fan servers will stay on indefinitely, despite the difficulties of attackers, crashes and securing static IPs/port forwarding.
Now that the revivalists and restorers are numerous, I know that it is only a matter of time before the elusive CD-ROM with the 1000 user limit Bureau or whatever, is found in a stale room in some old Japanese uni library...or archives.
BlendoToday at 12:41 AM
I am nostalgic of the time 2004-2008, when I'd play around Sapari Coast or park, and at some point stumbled on how to enter downtown via the waterfall, and then RAM memory would overload on PCG-505V and it'd die, and the power button wouldn't work anymore. After several months (in hindsight it must've been the NiMH battery it has for its CMOS) it'd power on again, and I'd let it die because of SAPARi. SAPARi was notorious in my childhood for being a killer of laptops. It was a treat that couldn't go on forever. In 2010 505 wouldn't boot up, (now I know you have to keep it attached to the adapter for some time and let that NiMH battery charge), so I left it when I moved. They used the adaptor wire to hang cucumber plants, and the PC was a dead brick used as a toy by my cousin. For many years I regretted leaving it with them, for I wouldn't be able to extract the software+wrls from it, ever. So it always remained in the back of my head, while I did many other things. Stuff that happens in childhood does not leave easily. If I had used this Sapari and XGStudio in 2004 at just 4 years old, of course it would overshadow me forever. The SSMS Mastering studio stuff came later in 2007-12, but I never truly understood mastering until 2016. It's too complex. But that OXF-R3 mixing console pic truly elevated SSMS to legendary status. I remembered how naturally cool it was. XGStudio showed a drum kit and I was always searching for that sample tune I later learned to be danse macabre. And in 2017 Jan I got XGStudio trialware from youtube. And for the rest of 2017 I was engrossed in CP and related matters. At this time of the year in 2017, 3 years ago, I was telling Noma, Sawai, and sapacafe manager that all the software was in my hands and I shared it to them, saying that 'now is the moment to turn on the servers again'.
Unfortunately it had to wait for several years.
I remember in 2013 Summer I discovered CyberPassage and Honjo of 1996, but failed to install due to 16 bit, and on an old xp 32 bit VAIO it worked but said 'nodes does not found', how frustrating.
BlendoToday at 12:51 AM
In 2015 spring, I was again only scratching the surface, only able to trawl the google searches, though some foray into web archive was made gradually up to mid 2016. GCO's sumida bar wrls come to mind. But the sapari wrls remained elusive. At that point just the wrls alone, long lost after 505 died on me, were my goal. In 2017, it was much easier - soon a whole archive was in my possession, although my desires only grew - now the servers had to work, and the full versions had to be given to me. and if possible also the source code. Minor editing was done early in 2018 but nothing came of that. In 2019 I did nothing. And only in mid December 2020 did I by chance stumble on T Noma's shiwaza blog again, and read with interest about his 17 yr old son in NZ, and of course his dim view on VR - sapari is far superior than others that came after - my view too. sapari is the original, one and only. Any VR, any 3D chat, will not be acceptable unless it is a direct successor to sapari.
From this thinking I set to work studying stupidly, X3D, WebGL, A-Frame, Squeak/opencobalt, though none of this was implemented practically. I dreamt of integrating Skype into CP. But that Skype API had been dead for years.
About a week ago I stumbled upon hubs, and I felt it was what I had waited for for so long.
BlendoToday at 1:03 AM
Using only the browser, one could do all that sapari did, and open cobalt, and so achieve a fake-looking virtual environment with a great degree of freedom and share any media. Rooms limited to 50 users seemed a downside. All that hubs needed was some sensational, fun and lovable virtual world. Sapari seemed to fit the bill, and I set to work porting the wrls. On the marketing side, it seems unlikely that sapari could ever reach thousands of users without corporate backing. After 2020, there are definitely less office workers. Perhaps efficiency of work decreased, but that can change.
It is possible for many companies to adopt sapari as their method of communication, although the reasoning doesn't exist yet. Using hubs is understandable, particularly for mid-sized groups e.g. in education. Distance learning is too old. It seems the limits of technology will be pushed again if people desire for more than just a simple colourful world like sapari. The fake-real isn't appealing. Only the fake-fake is. Sapari could even be an animation, although random animals will take great skill to create a story.
I thought a little more and considered my bitterness about 2017 and CP, but I came to the basic conclusion that hubs requires heavy processing while CP requires nothing – only a dial-up connection and a 90s laptop due to the ingenious VSCP protocol. My still emerging dislike of CP must be due to not getting the source code and non-trialware installers after extensively wasting a year of my life. No doubt that was also my attitude when Sony threatened to sue me. Within myself I am witnessing a battle between hubs and CP. And tomorrow is 2021. And we still only have a 12 person limited server hosted out of pure generosity and an unbelievably diligent newly sprung core fan group.
I seem to be asking for more – an unlimited server considering the modern CPU speeds and internet speeds, and to bring in thousands of new users each day, for seemingly no purpose.
And thankfully everyone here seeks such an unlimited server. I disliked the no-replies, and I guessed that they did have source code and executables but they wouldn’t give it to a random high school student.
The adults, engineers, institutionalised businessmen seemed to be in the right, rational side, and I struggled to find even simple justification for archiving decades old software that nobody would give even a glance.
But I am sure, all those ‘VR experts’ and others, of which I only know Jaron Lanier or Mark Pesce, can’t really provide more reasons to justify VR technology, other than that it might be fun for some people.
This year Sony released a tabletop screen that can show 3D through holographic display technology. This made me remember Sapari for it was also screen based. Glasses I have never used, and screen based VR probably has little going for it anyway.
Perhaps it is not the technical side that matters so much – the part for the engineers, but rather it is the media and content of the VR by designers or users that matters most.
Whoa barra. Again I am wowed.
On the other hand I would like to see the aibo software, PostPet V3, PAW versions, and sapari all functional and available in the public domain. And I recognise that only sapari could remain free from the intervention by Sony’s lawyers, for the others have a lot more IP protections.
btw i decoded the scp files, is just the same wrl files but worse
but it didnt get somewhere
vrml and all that stuff was just, ahead of its time, pretty much
when internet still was a baby
wls is the answer
i would to like see a physical copy of cpb tbh
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| Date: 2019/01/28/18:56:25 [687] |
| Blendo Team 2019 | ||
| Blendo Team | ||
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| Date: 2019/01/01/09:38:05 [686] |
